Gameplay Help and Discussion - Support Gem POISON for SRS 6L - Forum - Path of Exile (2024)

As some SRS players are now testing POISON for our poor RS, I would like to have a discussion with you guys.
I am not a English native speaker so please forgive my poor English.

I have heard that the chaos damage dealt by poison could be increased by minion damage once again as the support gem POISON has only two or three labels which could hardly be increased in other build.So I tested the gem with my ES build friend in PVP to make sure it works.

Target with 0% chaos resistance and 75% fire resistance and 0 armor.

A 21Lv Summon Raging Spirit with no links. 270% increased minion damage.

Hit by a single RS one time - Dealt 250 damage (200 physical damage and 50 fire damage)
Hit by a single RS one time with POISON - Dealt 400 damage (including chaos damage)

So the damage is almost as calculated. As the POISON deals 10% of the physical damage and last for 2 sec, lets assume that a single RS deals 100 physical damage after calculation, the chaos damage would be 200*10%*2*(1+1.2+2.7)*More minion damage(in this case its 0), and it is 396 in total. So i think the theory is correct that the chaos damage dealt by a POISON linked to SRS could be increased by minion damage once again, which is like a almost 100%+ more damage support gem.

So now the problem is, which one in a SRS 6L should be replaced. As for this issue, I added the calculation of POISON in MatrixFactor's 2.1 SRS calculator, but I'm not 100% sure i was correct. The result turned out to be that for a +3 staff on single target, POISON is 10% better than Multistrike in damage, and even lower cost.

I really care about SRS since it was nerfed in damage (actually its totally nerfed, and further more the "improved" AI) and want more people like me to discuss about how this build should be like in 2.1.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

I've always felt the scientific method is better than theory in these cases. Try it out. See if stuff dies. If they do, it works.

+1

When you do the math for the poison mechanic on SRS - Poison is one of the better support gems for single target.

While Multistrike is better if you scale SRS with things like Wrath, Anger and flat damage support gems Poison will be better on an Hatred/Phys damage scaling SRS build nowadays.

It is easy to say that when you are playing in an party with an aura bot, "Elemental SRS" with Multistrike will be best clear speed over all due to the fact the 70% damage effectivness modifier got removed from the gem.

When you are a solo player you normaly don't run that many 50% auras by yourself. "Physical/Conversion" SRS with Melee Physical and Hatred has a lot more physical DPS on hit than the Multistrike build so that the Poison support gem becomes relevent.
Poison won't do much in terms of generel clear speed in maps against normal monster packs and champions - monsters die in split seconds anyways even i high maps with good gear. Against high HP high resist rare monsters it can make a difference of a few seconds with or without poison.

Where poison really shines is against strong unique bosses, like Atziri/Vaal/Trio, Dominus, Voll, Malachai, Piety, Daresso, Kaom etc.
In fact: The higher the effective HP of the boss you face is the more effevtive Poison will be against him when used with SRS. Against those bosses you usually ramp up before hand with an SRS build and get 40+ spirits out, turn on Vaal Haste and after that you start the boss encounter.

Since stacking poison has no limit other than duration you can get 150+ stacks easily on a boss, which is insane due to scaling with minion damage modifiers.

Thanks for all the replies. I actually tested it in Atrizi, and it seems to be better than multi strike on boss. But when mapping, both the calculation and my test shows that the old links would still do the highest damage, because POISON need melee pyhsical damage gem and minion damage gem to make it better than multi strike, and when mapping none of the 5 support gems could be replaced...

I am also wondering other adjustment should be done about 2.1 SRS to make it stronger, such as auras(for a Lv28 SRS hatred+haste or anger?), duration and cast speed in skill, and cast speed in jewels.

I myself have tested several types of different builds in 2.1, and also calculations, but as I am not good at this, I really hope that more SRS player could be involved in discussions or those professional player could help us out about what SRS should do in 2.1.

Thank you for testing Poison SRS on Atziri. Glad to see that my math was on spot :^)
As you mentioned correctly Poison is only better with "physical SRS scaling" (Minion Damage + Melee Physical) specificaly on bosses with low chaos resist; in all other scenarios other setups are much better.

I would also like to do a discussion and analysis which SRS setup is "best" for 2.1 and what will change with upcomming Ascendancy.

Currently in 2.1 Multistrike is theoreticaly better than Spell Echo in endgame if you have decent gear and a lot of cast speed over all:

- 8.46% more damage ( w/o Vaal Haste)
- 20.48% more damage (with Vaal Haste)

20% more damage is a lot on paper against single target but there are other factors to take in consideration:

Multistrike:
+ More combined Damage over all after ramp up
+ More combined Damage at the beginning of ramp up (first ~3sec) against single target
+ More combined single target damage

- much higher mana cost
- less clear speed against large groups of mobs (especially in the first ~3sec of ramp up)
- less clear speed while traveling from pack to pack in maps
- less likly to chill/freeze or stun monsters due to less harder but faster hits
- requires good gear and jewels with tons of cast speed to feel smooth in maps
- your spirits are rooted a little longer due to Multistrike

Spell Echo:
+ Greater number of spirits (can reach max. 50 cap!)
+ Faster clear speed in against many monsters and dense packs due to greater number of spirits
+ More damage against large groups of monsters at the beginning of ramp up (first 3sec)
+ Higher effectivity of Melee Splash due to greater number of spirits (overlapping effect)
+ lower mana cost
+ faster map clearing while traveling from pack to pack
+ higher chance to chill/freeze and stun enemys with harder but slower hits

- less damage over all after ramp up
- less damage against single target over all and much less while ramping up
- less combined single target damage
- you are rooted while casting a little longer due to spell echo effect

To conclude my analysis: Multistrike seems better on paper if you look purly on the math behind it. In a more practical approach it turns out that Multistrike has lower clear speed over all in comparision with Spell Echo while considering maping and traveling from pack to pack.

TLDR:
If your SRS total damage is sufficiant to kill white mobs in 3 hits or less (taking overlapping effect of Melee Splash and multiple number of SRS into consideration), beeing able killing blue packs in seconds and don't having a lot of trouble with rares, Spell Echo is superior in terms of over all clear speed in maps. If you mostly doing Boss farming only like Atziri or Rigwald and have no mana issues Multistrike is your choice to go with.

Since I'm playing Necromancer it would be OK to bring this thread up to live ^^

Does any1 really tried to use Poison support gem? :)
With the number of spirits it must be zillion of poison stacks in seconds...

Yes, there is green slot required - not usual for SRS builds. We can remove Melee Physical Damage support, made green slot and use Culling Strike (at 20% q only - for 10% A.Speed boost) for trash and Poison Support for bosses (also, switch Melee Splash for Melee Phys or Multistrike in the boss cases)

Melee Physical Damage Support - 10% increased melee damage + 49% more melee damage (afaik 'increased' and 'more' is not the same in the POE)
Culling Strike Support - 10% increased minion's attack speed + 10% our cast speed with that skill + 38% increased minion's damage (physical and fire both)

Melee damage is a half of the spirit's damage. Culling Strike inreases overall minion's damage - not only melee. So, changing MPD gem for CS gem mustn't decrease our damage output.

For someone, who have 6-l staff but didn't have Empower 3 there can be even 2 green slots:
SRS - Echo - Minion Damage - Melee Splash (Multistrike) - Culling Strike - Poison Support

I just like the idea of poisoning - I think, it perfectly fits Necromancer's way)))